Curse

ShaneOfMach · Apr 08, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Hello, I used to be play guild wars around 4 months ago, but sadly now I have retired because I just got extremely bored with this game. After creating 5 level 20 characters and participating in almost every run and mission in the game, I quickly began to lose interest seeing as everything I did seemed to be a case of Deja Vu.

I think some of the reasons why this game became bland could be:

the auto targeting system
regulation of range
repetitive attacks
linear mission formats

(Warning: If you don't have the time to read a 4 page essay, scroll down to the @@@ for the gist of my suggestions.)

Basically, anything I do in Guild Wars is revolved around a single strategy. Get someone to tank all the monsters and have everyone else just nuke them. Where is the fun in that? Guild Wars claims to balance out all the classes, but it is always warriors in the front lines, and if you can't deal AoE damage, you are rejected from the common cookie-cutter parties. (Assassins, Dervishes, Mesmers, etc.)

What happened to actual strategy? What happened to flanking, dividing group party members, and basically any tactical thinking? What happened to skill? In PvP and PvE, it was basically who can press what buttons the fastest, or who can interrupt the most, or any other kind of linear or boring tasks to kill an opponent. There was almost literally no complexity in battles.

What I would love to see happen to Guild Wars is:

1.) Abolishment of the Automatic Targeting System and Range capabilities.

Wouldn't it be great for players to actually involve some skill in this game? There are so many lovely features and strategies that can be developed by this implementation. Just imagine Rangers being able to scope with their bows and sniping enemies from beyond the range limitations, casters having much more flexibility casting their spells being able to predict where enemies are going, and a whole bunch of new things. Kiting would actually mean something to the game, where as if you tried to kite a spell, it will still hit you no matter what the hell you did. Warrior's wont just randomly use an attack and then automatically run up to you and hit you. Instead, they would actually have to think to inflict damage on their opponent. The shadow-stepping of assassins would be an insanely deadly tool, seeing as being sneaky would actually mean something now, rather than before that if you targeted the assassin, shadow-stepping meant jack shit because they would get hit no matter what. Now, you can actually switch between first person view or third person view, depending on which will fit the scenario best.

Auto-targeting and range limitations for healing and enchantments would still exist. However, for hexes and other offensive spells, they would ALL have a general AoE effect. The caster would actually have to aim it at people now and can choose to shoot in areas that would maximize their damage, hitting in places that would affect multiple targets.

And because of the lack of range limitations, sniping would also be implemented into the game. Capturing high ground would actually mean something, and casters or rangers can optimize their unique characteristic of... well, range. The moment they can see an enemy, they can hit it. How awesome is that? It just depends on how well you can aim.

2.) Casting/Attacking while moving.

One of the most retarded features that I've experienced in Guid Wars is that whenever you try to cast something, you would be paralyzed for the time being that you are casting, allowing anyone to just bash on you. Kiting can be utilized to its full potential with this new feature and would grant squishies much more defensive mechanisms. Additionally, because it would be just stupid to run straight at someone who can attack while kiting you, you're going to have to think of new ways to get to them, whether its ambushing, flanking, or any other clever methods you can think of.

3.) Active Defensive Mechanisms

You know how blocking and missing were all based on probability? What if you were able to actively initiate skills and and spells that were instantaneous, but would only last long enough to deflect attacks? Vulnerability of classes would no longer be an issue, and players would constantly have to keep their guard up. However, in order to not overpower this feature, miss and blocks should reduce the damage, say by 50-75%, rather than completely negating it. This would also lead to the downfall of the so called "warrior tank and everyone nuke" strategy. These active defensive skills would require no recharge time, but still have a cost of 5 energy, so it's hard to continuously spam or else you would just be wasting energy.

4.) New Map Layouts in General

The basic layout of the game just forces you into one linear path: from point A to point B. I don't know about you, but this is incredibly dull. The only mission I can think of at the moment which allows you to go through different paths for different results is the Nahpui Quarters Mission. Where is the sense of exploration, variety, and vastness? I swear, every mission I do with all of my characters was the same thing, over and over and freaking over again. Everything was a giant cess pool of repetition and lack of originality. Why not create missions where you can divide your group to explore different corners of the map? Why is it everything you do, you always have to be in a tight ball of 8 people? There is NO COMPLEXITY to Guild Wars Missions. All you can do is go down one linear path everyone is forced to follow. There has to be some variety to this game, because everyone is always going down the same boring road. If you just strictly followed the missions and primary quests, you would only cover less that 1/4th of that continent. The other 75% has completely no use to the game or the storyline. If you didn't intentionally go out of your way to some outposts and cities, You would never, ever, encounter them in your Guild Wars life.

The continental map is freaking huge. Include at least 75% in the main storyline for goodness sake. Instead, 75% of it is actually completely left out. Sad. Make it so that each new town you visit, they all have a unique gear or armor that is only exclusive to that location, something to motivate exploration. This game is incredibly dull after you beat it, because everything you see is so repetitive. Implement random spawning of creatures, so it is impossible to predict what you will encounter. Change the maps around so that there are dozens of ways to finish the mission, with all of them being equally long to complete.

The environment you have to work with is just really sad. No matter how you look at it, It's all one form of an embellished valley. You have very frustrating barriers that won't let you utilize your creativity to its full potential. For example, in the Mountain missions, all you could do is go straight ahead in a set path. I was expecting to be able access areas of high altitudes such as the side of cliffs or on high slopes above certain battles. What do I get? Just a single path in white snow with the mountains being the BARRIERS of the map. So I think to myself, "Wow. This is just the same as the Ascalon Missions, except for a change in background." ArenaNet implemented the depth perception of high and low altitudes so well. Too bad they never gave us a chance to use it to its highest potential.

5.) Skills Slots

Eight skills at a time is barely enough to completely enjoy this game. I would suggest completely abandoning the 8 skill inventory, and be able to have access to all your skills at any given time. From my experience in Guild Wars, around the time I started playing with my Elementalist, I only acquired a total of 15 skills! Basically in PvE, you were required as an Elementalist to have Meteor Storm, Searings Flames, and Glowing Gaze in order to be accepted into a party. How pathetically superficial can this game get? I want to have access to all my skills, so that I can have a huge arsenal with so much variety that the same attacks won't be used 200 times in a single mission. It would also force the lazy players to reconsider using the cookie cutter skills, and actually spend their time acquiring skills other than the main ones they use for the entire game.

@@@

As a recap, let's review what should be implemented to make this game more interesting:

-Abolishing automatic lock on targeting (excluding heals, enchantments, and shouts)
-Sniping and Far range capabilities
-Casting and Attacking while moving
-Active Defense Skills
-Unique Map Layouts
-A more comprehensive storyline
-Incentive to actually explore Guild Wars
-Random Spawning of monsters whenever you enter the map
-Able to change your skill slots OUTSIDE of towns

as a bonus:
-Attacks that hit in the back does critical damage, so that flanking behind enemies would be much more effective, retreating opponents would take more damage, and players/monsters that are stupid enough to just rush past melee players would succumb quickly.

What would be the result of all of these new features? Personally, I would think that it would lead to extinction of cookie cutter builds, the use of multiple creative strategies, a more complex and non-repetitive storyline, the inability to predict exactly when enemies show up and what types they are, the use of every single class in a party, the ability to use all your skills to their full potential, and ultimately a much more fun Guild Wars that would always maintain its vibrant spirit of surprises.

Sven788 · Apr 08, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Yes you are right, but what you are suggesting is a totally new game. I'm also bored with GW and I'm looking for a new MMORPG. Guess what I found Age of Conan (beta testing now) that game has all of your ideas.

Note not making commercial things here just suggesting something that he is looking for.

exiled mat · Apr 08, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

sorry to say, but it sounds like you want gw to become wow ...

ShaneOfMach · Apr 08, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

I have never seen WoW, seen anyone play WoW, or actually have the slightest idea of how the battle system works for WoW.

These are all my speculations from an unbiased point of view without relating to another game.

Azure · Apr 08, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

From complete PvE point of view I could say that most of ye suggestions are more or less acceptable..

But since PvP is very big part of this game, almost every suggestion ye made would mess up the game really bad, lets see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

-Abolishing automatic lock on targeting (excluding heals, enchantments, and shouts)
Not 100% sure I understood what ye meant on this, but it could work work, altho I higly doubt rangers could hit anything after this.

-Sniping and Far range capabilities
For rangers this could be reasonable, for casters no way, would mess up positioning and other stuff so bad.

-Casting and Attacking while moving
This is just a simple big 'No' Imo.

-Active Defense Skills
I read this couple of times but still dont get what ye means.

-Unique Map Layouts
This sounds like good idea, but since its persistent world I doubt theres much ye can do? We'll see about the EotN Caves what theyll come up with.

-A more comprehensive storyline
Id like to see this also, but you can only add so much to online games.

-Incentive to actually explore Guild Wars
Most people already to these for GMC or screenshotting, more of and RP aspect I think? But yer, Id like to see something 'special' in the hard to reach explorables, like.. hmm.. nothing comes to mind atm.

-Random Spawning of monsters whenever you enter the map
Dunno if this would be a good idea.. but it certainly aint bad one, variable enemies always bring new excitement or something ot game haha.

-Able to change your skill slots OUTSIDE of towns
This is one of the base things of GW, just like the 'lvl20 cap'.
This makes GW what it is.

From PvE perspective - Mostly good ideas, and would refrest the gaming, but since this game has 'other' side too called PvP, everything that would change the gameplay drasticly just would make this game.. not GW anymore.

And hey, its just a game, I think there aint many games out there that can keep up your interest indefinately, take a break and come back after couple weeks or few months, thats what i do

Div · Apr 08, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Great suggestions, but this will turn the game into a mixture of halflife and WoW. Not saying it's bad, but the reason Anet came up with GW is because they wanted something new.

ShaneOfMach · Apr 08, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

hmm... now that I think about it, most of my suggestions have FPS characteristics to them.

By the active defense, I mean when you see an incoming attack, you use that skill to negate some of the damage. Think of it like the Shield Bubble in Super Smash Bros.

And seriously, because of the 8 skill slot maximum, it leads to cookie cutter builds, which just corrupts the purity of the game into cheap, superficial builds. When's the last time you saw an Ice Ele on an FoW run?

Basically, Anet claims that this is a new kind of RPG with a lot of action to it. But everything I do in PvE are just various forms of a tank gathering the aggro and everyone else nuking. It sickens me.

i don't know about you, but when I first bought Guild Wars, I thought there was actually a level skill you needed to develop in order to be good at it. That doesn't seem to be the case in PvP. All I found myself doing in PvP was targeting people my teammates were calling, pressing a combination of numbers, and running for my life whenever I was being attacked.

I personally believe that free-looking, rather that automatic targeting, would make the game so much more interesting. Guild Wars got so tedious with the "press t/c button then your skills" combo, that it just made me nauseous.

The level of strategy I saw in this game was non-existent. It was just a straight forward progression of killing enemies taht were in your way. There was barely any challenge in killing the monsters, and when they were difficult to defeat (DoA), it just made the game even more frustrating because there was nothing new introduced, just stronger monsters that would kill you in two-hits, actually promoting the use of aggroing and nuking.

I really wanted to see complex strategic maneuvers in this game, but I realized that this game was just a glorified version of runescape.

hnkelau · Apr 08, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

About everything you wrote are the things that makes gw the game it is, if you dont like it, there is other mmos that are diffrent.

Lydz · Apr 08, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

I agree. If you don't like the game, don't play it. Guild Wars is perfect the way it is for me and I know many other people will agree!

In reply to your summary:

-Abolishing automatic lock on targeting (excluding heals, enchantments, and shouts)
That's just stupid. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be having to attack without being able to target something? DEFINITELY a bad idea in my opinion

-Sniping and Far range capabilities

Rangers can attack outside of their aggro bar. Yes, it's not a massive distance, but there has to be some regulation. Imagine how a ranger will be able to completely wipe out an elementalist by crippling them and firing as normal. The ele will have no chance of catching up to the ranger to cast a single spell. If you think that eles' range should also be increased, that's like saying you want exactly what we have at the moment, just on a far larger scale. For example (these distances are just for the eg

) If an ele can cast spells a enemies 50m away, and a ranger at enemies 70m away, what you are saying is that you want an ele to be able to cast 100m away and a ranger 140m. It's exactly the same thing, just scaled down :P

-Casting and Attacking while moving
This is a key element to GW. Not being able to move when casting is what makes the game balanced. Imagine eles running around casting spells while warriors can't get near them no matter what...

-Active Defense Skills
I don't quite get the point of this. Personally I'd rather take the 75% to block/have an attack missed for a certain amount of time than spend 5 energy trying to manually block each attack. This would also be extremely unfair to those with higher pings

-Unique Map Layouts
This I agree with. Thankfully it's going to be addressed in GW2 with the ability to swim, slide and even climb trees

-A more comprehensive storyline
I found the storylines quite interesting actually. I never expected what happened in Prophecies to happen, and Factions wasn't bad. Nightfall was original imho. At least the game has cutscenes that immerse you in the world, unlike the majority of other games.

-Incentive to actually explore Guild Wars
1 word - titles. I'm going for Grand Master Cartographer on all continents. I'm a long way away, but it gives me incentive to explore. There's also hidden treasures on Elona, which will require exploration to find (unless you use a map)

-Random Spawning of monsters whenever you enter the map
Monsters are spawned randomly, but to a degree. Random mosters showing up everywhere could be extremely frustrating, especially if they were to spawn at teleports and res shrines constantly (I know they do sometimes, but increasing the randomness could only increase the probability of this)

-Able to change your skill slots OUTSIDE of towns
This is just wrong. The point of the game is to have a build. If you choose the right one and implement it well, you succeed, and vice versa. If you want to use any skill at any time (which requires no thinking imho) try WoW

In summary...I think you want a whole other game. Maybe Guild Wars just isn't for you

Epinephrine · Apr 08, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Try PvP. PvE is dull in every MMORPG on the planet.

Rurik Jangeer · Apr 08, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I will agree that it would be nice to see some added strategy to GW. But, not to the extreme that you mentioned. You are suggesting something like GW2.

chembaron · Apr 08, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by exiled mat

sorry to say, but it sounds like you want gw to become wow ...

I agreee. So many people complain about the GW brand. I speculate a lot of people turn to GW in hopes of getting a free WoW. Well GW is not WoW. It's not perfect but it is what it is. If you don't like it play something else.

darkknightdominator · Apr 08, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

I like GW the way it is.

chembaron · Apr 08, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

-A more comprehensive storyline
I found the storylines quite interesting actually. I never expected what happened in Prophecies to happen, and Factions wasn't bad. Nightfall was original imho. At least the game has cutscenes that immerse you in the world, unlike the majority of other games.

I must also agree here. The storyline is quite good all things being equal.

nekopowa · Apr 08, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Exactly, ever heard of PvP buddy?

You're craving for WoW with your thread. You should consider buying it because you're obviously playing the wrong game.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

I didn't bother reading anything you said other than the first paragraph, because this is all I have to say to you:

try PvP.

Xenex Xclame · Apr 08, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I have to agree with some of the people posting in here,except for the things that are really purely pve , like better story etc, it really sounds to me like you want pvp.

Have you tried pvp?If not i really suggest you do , it sounds to like what you would enjoy more.

legion_rat · Apr 08, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

WoW there were alot of people suggesting you try another game. I mean WoW, its just funny how many people think you are trying to turn GW into somehting other then what it was meant to be. I just dont know what to tell you...I mean

WoW

If you dont like it dont play it and why waste time posting here about it.

~the rat~

Kas · Apr 08, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Geez, every suggestion is bombarded with a "don't make it WOW" comment. You know that is nothing more but trolling, do you?

Nonetheless, back on topic:
1.) Abolishment of the Automatic Targeting System and Range capabilities.
You're suggesting a First Person Shooter Environment. While all these things are okay and well for a First Person Shooter, Guildwars is and shall never be a First Person Shooter.

2.) Casting/Attacking while moving.
For this to happen, casters would have to be toned down by a lot. You know invulnerability for a caster from melees in your scenario? Engage a speedbuff and run while nuking the shit out of the warrior - laughing.
"Who is that retard over there, running around waving his arms while his tongue sticks out his mouth - panting?"
"Careful. That's an archwizard and he is casting a powerful spell"
"Cool"
"Yep"
"Looks retarded."
"Yep"

3.) Active Defensive Mechanisms
And what are stances and skills, if not active defense mechanisms?

4.) New Map Layouts in General
Instanced Gameplay versus Streaming Gameplay. In terms of serverload and lag, as well as prevention from griefing - instances win.

5.) Skills Slots
Skill slots do not promote cookie cutter builds. Players do. In games where you have access to 100 skills at the same time, players still insist on you bringing a chosen few.
Aside from that, skill slots are the one feature I really like about GW. I allways loved magic for that same reason. Having a vast choice of options but only limited room. Besides...
"Quick, cast Cynns Greater Meteor Storm!!!!"
"Can't, it's in my 19th quickbar and i'm currently in the 3rd"

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 08, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Hmm, sounds like you want a first person shooter game...

Pecking around trying to target a moving target may be part and parcel to Doom and its ilk, but it really has no place in the current design of Guild Wars.

Hexes, Curses have AoE effect? I don't understand that at all. This would truly dumb the combat down.

Your ideas would truly make the game BLAND not spice it up.

All skills you possess available? OMG, Can you say ridiculously overpowered? Not to mention what would have to change in PvE and PvP.

Players bring to the playing field whatever tactics and strategy they are capable of...there is more than one way to accomplish things.

You can out flank enemies in Guild Wars, you can split up a party and plan attacks. In fact. from what I have seen very high end PvE requires a lot of planned pulls and teamwork.

Seriously, you are asking for an entirely different game. Counterstrike, perhaps.